CONCERNING DEATH
61Concerning death, I am an animal, my physical chemistry will return to the earth just like that of any other life form.
Energy cannot be created or destroyed. The energy I possess will be re-distributed into all that surrounds me
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Because we are conscious, cognitive creatures, we human beings place undue importance in the fact that we exist, ....arrogantly so.
Until such time that empirical evidence is provided in referrence to their being a soul or spirit, I cannot buy it. "Gaia dominates.
Jean Paul Sartre proclaimed that "...existence preceeded essence." To this curious writer, that statement would mean that prior to the existence of a living entity which embodies the unique ability to perceive it's surroundings through the processes of cognizant interpretation, the "essence" or the embodiment of anything could not exist, for it takes a conscious being, a sentient mind which can respond to it's surrounding environment to make sum and substance of it all.
If, in fact, existence preceeded essence, then all that we sense with our insubstantial mental abilities has been created by a sense of our awareness and must be resolved by us. There would seem to be no other way.
Man has created spiritual crutches which he hopes and prays will assist him in his attempts to survive the vagaries of an ephemeral existence on a microscopic fleck of cosmic dust: earth.
Because he is puny and fearful, his unparalleled ability has and will continue to create situations with seemingly no answers or remedies.
To help alleviate these frustrating quandries, he has, out of desperation, created omnipotent deities upon which he can lay his most oppressing problems and wait to see if the "spritual master" will respond! Fortuitously, chance occassionally rewards a believer. Unfortunately , the result, all too often drives the trusting soul deeper and deeper into chasms of bigotry and fantaticism. It frustrates ones ability to hypothesize, theorize and transcend the unwarranted fear created by primitive superstition, ignorance and blind faith.
Operating thusly, man has little hope of achieving the success of his anachronistic predecessors, creatures which could not "think," the most successful of all creatures which had existed on the planet earth: the dinosaurs.
Each day in communicating with my fellow man, I experience the vacuous thoughts of obviously unevolved human creatures. I am chronically reminded of the shallowness of their thought processes and narrowness of their illiterate proclamations. It seems they are not at all concerned with the ultimate survival of their species. They all seem to be like minded. They impulsively over indulge. They concern themselves with the trivial and the inconsequential. They act as though they are satisfied with their lot. That there are no alternatives. They seem not to be concerned about developing health or taking preventative measures to insure that they will survive for as long as genetically possible. The pat answer to the subject good health is: "life is short, I'll live it the way it suits me. It's too late to change." "God will take care of me" and so-it-goes.
"There is no god! The illogical, primitive concept of monotheistic divinities has been, singly, the deadliest concept created by evolving man.
Peruse the annals of historic pogroms over the last 2,000 years and try to convince any thnking human being that the majority of human genocides have not involved maniacal religious fanatics.
SArtre hit the nail on the head when he said that the individual has "...a terrifying freedom to choose!" ...and choose he has.
He doesnt seem to be able to learn from past mistakes. He blithely follows the dictates of his bestial predatory genetic coding and continues to wantonly destroy everything he contacts.
He has been a wonderful "adapter." He is an omnivore. He has learned to survive on the most varied diet of all earth's creatures. He is supremely capable of ensuring his own survival. He has the ability to transcend the power of genetics. He has the dynamics to ascend to the heights of evolutionary pinnacles never achieved by any earthly life form, yet he seems apathetically disinclined to obtrude himself beyond his ignoble desire for self gratification and gluttony.
Mankind will reap what it sows.
When finally harvested, the crop man has sowed can only produce his extinction.
The religious will find and not to their dismay, for the dead cannot care, that they have become again, an integral part of the soil from whence all life was derived.
"Mom Nature " will begin from scratch, another of her fickle experiments with life. After all, it's no big deal for HER, SHE has all the time and space SHE needs to play with.
Man will have succumbed to his inability to cope and the fictional "supreme" being will shrug HER mighty BLACK shoulders, frown, breathe a disgusted sigh and slowly turn away. SHE was not perfect after all! If SHE was, SHE could have insured that those created in HER image would have succeeded!!...tch , tch....
Qwark
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I got it CArrie ...TY....but you had no answer for me. You have responded in the same manner all ecclesiastics and believers do....again this is not meant to be an insult, but your response only convinces me that you too are but a guesser and hoper...and therefore not a credible writer ref this god thing.....ty very much.
Qwark
I'm sorry you feel that way. I'm not sure what you're looking for; perhaps God in the form of man? Jesus would be a start.
Carrie...there is no one on earth who "knows" anything about jesus. All you and other believers have, is what is written in the terribly corrupted scriptures presented in the new testament. Study the evolution of the new testament. My words will become obviously true. You and others express your beliefs based totally on the words others who knew no more than you about the life of jesus. The new testament you read and believe in, so zealously, was not available to the public for almost 300 yrs after jesus alledgedly died.on a cross. I'm sure you are a wonderful person Carrie, but your words make it very clear to me and others who have spent a life time studying the history of religions, that you havent spent enough time studying the history of your beliefs and man's "bent" for beliefs in the supernatural and other subjects integral to the rise of 'conscious" man, with an open mind. I have many friends who believe as you. They all fall into the same category of being followers who have not spent time studying rather than just listening, reading the bible and believing. Being a mature lady fully invested in your monotheistic beliefs, would make it as difficult for you to see and realize "truth" as it would be for a fundamental muslim or jew to do the same. You are not a credible "hubber" ref this god subject. Your comments are based on emotion and not fact. Thank you for your replies. Be happy and enjoy your life as a "follower." :-)
Qwark
So why don't you reveal what your studies revealed? If you haven't found God in your studies, it seems you haven't the knowledge and understanding the Holy Spirit of God will give you? I found God with just the bit of scriptures I was given through the Bible we have today, and yet you haven't found Him with all the scriptural research you have done. I'm interested to know what your research revealed as the truth (and please site your sources). I would love to know. I would think you'd be burdened for all who supposedly don't know the truth. I know I am!
Hi Carrie: It seems you have missed my point. Pls define this god thing "factually" for me. I cannot respond honestly and sincerely until "it" can be defined. If you cannot do that, then I have to believe that you are just presenting opinion in reference to "it's" existence. There are no monotheistic scriptures that factually define this contemporary god thing. All scripture of the 3 major monotheisms mention "it," and proclaim "it's" powers and abilities but leaves what it is up to your discretion. To me that means "it" it is but imagined. I cannot, intellectually, discuss with you that which you imagine to be. Thank you again for your sincere reply.
Qwark
So all your studies didn't prove there's a God. I've written a hub about Heavenly Math, but of course, if you don't believe in God, even after all your studies and must believe as Thomas did (to see), then I believe God is able to give you what you seek. Blessed are they who have not seen, and yet believe, says the Lord. I know it sounds like foolishness to you, and that is understandable. The testimony is the life made manifest, the change in us, the hearing of God's voice and seeing of His miracles which follow us that believe that is indeed the proof of His existence. You can't know this until you have the faith to believe. That's God's ways. I truly hope you find what you seek, and that being your Creator and Savior.
So where did you get this info of yours, is it a self proclaimed experience or wishful thinking. It seems very similar to Biblical stuff , but you seem to indicate a nothingness not even a direction, what do you call it.
Hi hoowantstoknow: Thanks for commenting...if you could be a little more specific in questioning, I'd be happy answer to the best of my ability. i.e. "...you seem to indicate a nothingness not even a direction, what do you call it." I have no idea what it is you are referring to. It may be helpful for you to know that I am not an atheist, agnostic, deist or a believer in mythical supernatural deities. I will answer any questions you ask. thanks again.
Qwark
Hi again Carrie:
I dont know what this god thing is you speak of. Pls define "it" for me and I'd love to "Hub" with you about "it's" potential existence. Until I "know" what "it" is, I cannot consider it in any form...I sincerely, wish you well.
Qwark
Qwark, indeed you have intellect that is a gift in itself from your Creator, God. You know, Adam and Eve were told NOT to eat of the tree of knowledge, and most likely for this reason. Knowledge exalts the one who has it and makes it hard for him to humble himself to a power greater than his own. I say this truly with compassion. I wish we lived closer together so we could dig in and study what you've studied. I think there are times God is not to be tested and other times in the Word He says to test Him. I suggest you think of a way to "test" Him for the sake of being drawn to Him. I don't know. But, I think if you see power and love in people of the Lord, that would be a witness in itself...I do care, and I wish I had the answer YOU SEEK, for my answer is the answer, just not the one you seek. I'm sure your intelligence can understand that one :-)
Oh, there was one more thing that twice now I was supposed to tell you. When you look into county records of people that existed generations ago, is that not proof they existed? We have volumes on the existence of Jesus Christ...
And just now...more for you. You've stated to me that the ignorant (innocent) accept there is a God as a negative thing. Adam and Eve were indeed innocent when they were created. Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Little ones don't have knowledge that gets in the way or exalts themselves (knowledge puffs up, the Word says). To have the faith of a little child is all you needed way back when...the roots are deep now, and like a weed, will be nearly impossible to pull up. But, nothing is impossible if it be God's perfect will for you.
Carrie...:-) I appreciate you and the time it takes for you to express yourself honestly and sincerely. Again I must say, and without the intent of insult, that what you offer is trite. I am an educated 60 year old man who has visited, in depth, every point you raise in your well expressed comments. You offer nothing new or of interest or value to me. I've studied and thoughtfully considered your concerns many, many moons ago and have added to my "knowledge" subjects concerning life and reality that I doubt you have yet considered. The concepts which have evolved are based on reality, not on those things one can only "guess" at and hope for. If you study Roman history, there is very little mentioned about jesus. the new testament is a compilation of stories which have been corrupted by time and interpretation. Every word presented in it can be classified as "heresay." It is not a credible monotheistic presentation of this man jesus. You still havent defined this god of monotheism actually for me...why not? Again ty for taking the time to "Hub" with me...
Qwark
I can only define Him as the Bible states, for that is my faith. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. I wish I knew how the Bible as you say has been so corrupted. What is the truth you found before our Bible today? I would love to read you hubs on the subject. I'll be here if you feel so led to ask me anything else. I think one sign for you that you might not have considered is this: I haven't met one of the multitude of people you've claimed as ecclesiastics, yet we all agree. Is that not a sign in itself? When we all get to heaven we will be like-minded without ever having known each other here on earth. There's something to be said for that. I truly wish you the very best in your search. Hopefully, you still have tomorrow to find Him.
carrie: there is no biblical definition of this god thing. there is no definition of it in the qur'an or the torah..."it" is but mentioned and "it's" alledged powers touted. All monotheistic scripture leaves what it is up to your imagination. All of man's god's, from his appearance as "modern man" have been imagined. What would make anyone think that this contemporary god has been conceived any differently? food for thought Carrie...:-)
Well, I guess it depends on what your own definition of a god is. Would it be as simple as one who is greater than man? If you met a man that could make sickness disappear in an instant, or better yet....give you the exact answer you seek to your question, would you think him a god?
Let me begin by saying that I have never read a word of Jean Paul Sartre. He sounds like he might be worth a look.
Prior to expressing my opinion, I'd like to state for the record, in the unlikely event that anyone might actually care, that it is nothing more than that nor could it be otherwise.
Essence and existence are one. The moment there was energy there was essence. There simply was no word for it, nor was there need for such classification, nor will there ever be. Was there no existence before we named it?
A lack of awareness in no way negates existence but without essence, the intrinsic or indispensable properties of being, there cannot be existence. Each is the source of the other and words are inadequate to define either.
The universe is essential and does not require us to name or validate it. It simply is. Our awareness or the absence thereof is irrelevant.
Homo sapiens is not a predator by nature and has very few, if any, abilities that are unparalleled. Termites, ants and bees possess construction skills that far surpass those of humans. There is an abundance of examples from the realm of the “wild beasts” that would utterly shame the parallel skills of humans.
We are a species of dilettantes. The only thing at which humans truly excel is destruction. Virtually everything they touch becomes dead, usually sooner rather than later.
What makes them truly unique is their inexplicable desire to destroy gratuitously. No other omnivore that I am aware of, not even the most voracious is known to be so consistently needlessly destructive and certainly not with a proffered motive so patently irrational as vengeance or retribution.
Humans actually stopped adapting long ago. They prefer instead to customize the environment to suit their perceived requirements at any given time. By creating such extensively artificial and semi-sterile living conditions, they are almost certainly impairing their ability to survive.
The elegant, unpredictably destructive creativity of existence cannot be controlled. Gaia and the natural universe cannot be “conquered”. She has consumed her own, or surrendered them to the universe from whence she emerged, since her existence began. She will certainly not play favorites with the naked ape.
Your observations regarding the utterly superstitious primitivism of religious belief are very accurate and elegantly stated. There would not necessarily be such a problem were it not for the insistence on the part of many such people that everyone embrace that exact same belief unconditionally or suffer dire consequences both here and in the “afterlife”.
However, I would not lay blame for all our ills exclusively at the feet of those who grovel before imaginary beings. Those who worship wealth and power are equally guilty and this usually includes the highest priests of large organized religions. Their motivation is really not much different from that of the devout capitalist. Such prelatic cabals do not seek the ends they claim, the salvation of their followers, but rather the same life of decadent opulence that seems so favored by supremacists of every stripe.
All such parasites seek supremacy over their fellows and attain it by the accumulation of vast material wealth and power gained through deceit, prevarication and venality.
Although we look at a few details from slightly different angles, I see nothing in those divergent views that call for either of us to reevaluate our philosophy extensively.
Our broad view, taken I believe through a somewhat jaundiced eye, is much the same.
Wow, you guys sound like the same guy! I've never met anyone who writes and speaks like you two (perhaps one in the same?) Incredible...alsmost like the oneness of we who believe in God. We are a type of "alien", so-to-speak, as we are in the world, but not of it. You two sound like aliens as well...and I wouldn't be so surpised if you were also not part of this world.
You know who God is. If He stood before you, you would immediately confess as Legion did. There would no way to hide as you do now behind such a front. AMEN.
coldwarbaby...I applaud you! :-) I, almost, could not have expressed it better! There is only 1 area of concern. We most definitely are earth's prime predator. The evolution of "consciousness" has created the most efficient "killer" of all of earth's predatory life forms. We can plan ahead, organize and perpetrate our killings and do it suffering no compunction. With the advent of human population almost doubling in the next 30 - 40 yrs, and monotheism fragmenting mankind to the extent that man will never function in concert to guarantee it's survival, the future for all of us is bleak....thanks for commenting honestly and to my way of thinking, correctly.
Carrie...I understand what you are trying to communicate. When your thinking coincides with billions of others and a few disagree and offer conflicting thoughts....the majority, naturally thinks it is right. History proves that kind of thinking to have been wrong in countless cases. The "illuminati" are always the minority...:-)
Yeah its very hard to describe what I am talking about especially when it is discussing what you are talking about, so my question remains, What are you talking about, what do you call your experience ....what ever it is.
I encoded your hub and did an ELS on it and found coded into your " Concerning Death" the following words....Hell, SATAN, DEVIL,FALSE,LIE,BAD. amazingly, I could not find Jesus, Christ, Holy Spirit,and other biblical truths.
hello Hoowantstoknow: I dont know what an ELS is? I never considered using any of the words: hell, satan,devil etc., etc., in this Hub? I did not mention any experience I've had. You mention: "what do you call your experience ....what ever it is." So, I really don't know how to answer whatever your question is. I appreciate your concern and once I understand exactly what you want to know, I will answer as soon as you tell me.......There are no biblical "truth's." None at all. Thanks...:-)
As I said qwark, trolls are better left unfed.
..I will not feed the trolls! ..promise! :-)
God the Creator made all you experience, and the person you are that experiences it, come into existence, along with the entire universe you live in.
If you think the Christian Apostles were puny, fearful men, trying to create some fantasy about God or Jesus Christ out of desperation, then you have no knowledge of them at all and therefore are putting yourself out here as an expert on a subject you know nothing about.
Those straw men of "bigotry and fanaticism" you animals love to rave about are nonsense. Your words identify the bigot in the room. And religious fanatics (the word has a meaning; look it up if you don't know what it means) are rare anywhere outside of the Middle East (which I assume is not your target, probably wanting to keep your head attached).
You are right about this teeming ball of life, or speck of dust, spinning through this enormous void devoid of any other life—but you draw the opposite of the logical conclusion. Logic would tell you this is a supernatural occurrence since the natural state of the universe around us is utterly hostile to life.
Superstition? You are confusing the worship of God with black cats and walking under ladders. A pitiful analogy for an obviously superior, all-knowing brain to settle for.
Believing in God prevents being able to hypothesize? Maybe you should make yourself familiar with those who invented the modern concept of hypothesis: Newton, Galileo, Copernicus, Bacon—all Believers. Didn't seem to hold them back. What are your accomplishments with your esoteric gnosis?
Then you bring the favorite illusion of demonic forces: that religion is responsible for most of the genocide in the last 2000 years. That is so false it barely deserves a response but in case you think I can't: Going back a bit further, Alexander, Caesar, the Goths, the Mongols, the Huns—none of these killers killed in the name of religion. It was for land and power. You folks point to the 300 years when there were "religious wars" in Europe and try to make that the whole of human history. And those wars were about Spain and France dominating land, money, people and power far more than they had to do with religion. Napoleon was not fighting in the name of religion when he plunged the whole continent of Europe into war. None of the wars in 19th and 20th Century were for religion. You say this to obfuscate, because of what you know to be true: 100 million people died in the 20th Century because of 4 Atheists—Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot & Hitler. The Inquisition, on the other hand, killed maybe 50,000 people over 1000 years. It was the loss of belief in God—as Nietzsche predicted—that led to mankind's most murderous century.
Then in your comments, it almost gets worse. No one on earth knows anything about Jesus? Among the world's most learned historians who have studied the writings of Luke in their historical context only, meaning, hoping to catch him making historical mistakes, the vast majority have concluded he is or is one of the finest historians of antiquity. Well, he gives quite an account of the life and teachings of Jesus. Why would you believe Alaric lived or Pythagoras lived or King Henry II lived? Because you read it in a book? More people are certain Jesus lived than any of them by the millions. The new Testament was not written in 300, oh wise scholar. Every book in it was written by by 80 AD. AD. hmmm . . . does it not seem supernatural to you that calenders are dated by the birth of Jesus Christ? No? Well, have any calenders been made up starting with your birth?
Then you brag about how learned and well read you are compared to the ignorant folks who just follow "emotions." Well sir, you just met your Waterloo. I'll tell you is well read in this conversation: I am. You have not read as many books nor as many difficult books or deep books as I have. If you had you would have made much more impressive arguments. in your denigrations of other people.
Define God you demand. Gosh that's too easy. Everything you aren't? nah, just kidding. God is Life, Love and Truth. What else do you want to know. I don't know where you come up with this idea that "the three major religions describe God as 'it.'" Obviously, your total uneducatedness betrays you sir. God is never described as it. He is described as He.
The fact that there is little mentioned about Jesus in Roman history is a CLUE—but you are blinded to it by your biases. How on earth can an unknown person like this change the course of human history more than any other person who ever walked the earth? Is that natural? Do you know the names of any other carpenters from 2000 years ago? It is supernatural. Don't you see it, man. God does things His way, not your way—and for a damned good reason. So people like you will see the supernatural in it.
AND for the record, a troll is someone lurking in online communities only to cause trouble by being irrelevant and off-topic. Since I am, and I know Carrie is, a regular Hub producer; and since we are exactly addressing your topic; we do not qualify as trolls. I would have thought that in 60 years spent at Oxford you would know what a troll is.
And lastly, regarding your foolish friend, Cold War Baby. Notice the nonsense he spouts? Humans are the killers of the world? This fella must have smoked too much dope during science class. Killing is the way of the entire planet. Everything eats other living things. Nobody eats rocks. I don't see lions coming out for PETA, or seals protecting the wetlands, or birds drawing up endangered species lists. This guy thinks ants can build a space shuttle—if they weren't so noble, of course.
The man is not only a misanthrope (I didn't use that word to confound you), and a fruitcake (I have read some of his Hubs where every other sentence is a plea for civility, love, tolerance, peace, brotherhood, and understanding among all human kind—and every other sentence is utter denigration in the most snide fashion possible of anybody who doesn't agree with his beliefs! It is like a bad joke.) He says the only thing humans do well is destroy while he enjoys his computer, TV, A/C, auto, home, roads, bridges, medicine, refrigeration, telephone . . . oh this is tiring. Yea, bumblebees created all that stuff while humans can only destroy. Flies painted the Sistine Chapel. And cockroaches actually wrote Shakespeare's plays, Beethoven's music, Einstein's theories, and invented the Hubble telescope, blah blah blah. I think the Baker Act should be employed here. Then when I kindly pointed out the obvious contradictions in his Hub he sniveled like a little baby about it.
James ...my, my , you are an angry one! I have read what you have written very carefully. Interesting that one who claims to have read so many books, has not begun to understand the nature of the beasts who wrote them. I would have thought that having read so many books and having studied "everything" in great depth , that you would have gained some knowledge in reference to the evolved genetic characteristics of the human creature. Obviously you havent. Your "rant" was interesting to me in that the hostility and anger you exhibited is so like that of this biblical god and his creation: "man." You remind me, perfectly, of the religious fanatic I wrote about in a "Hub" regarding "Fanaticism." To me you represent the lowest form of evolved human life. An easily led, sycophantish follower. Thinking, logic and reason are not your forte. I chuckle silently while reading your words. You arent funny. Those of your ilk, histiorically , have proven themselves to be deadly. If man is to become a successfull species, The primitive, lethal concept "god," must be sublimated by a powerfull desire and action to survive. Your "god" thing is but a fad. Given time it will be "deleted."
Some trolls are more long-winded than others.
coldwar.....lol...he'd be funny if he wasnt obviously dangerous!
I'm not the least bit angry at you or anybody else. I don't know where you got that idea. If you think I am the lowest life form let's have a contest between you and me. Let's test our IQs with $1000 cash on the line and see who is a lower form of life? Don't like that one? How about trivia? A foot race? Log rolling? Poker?
You are the one who came into this community claiming to be the sage of the century. It was my duty to inform you that you are mistaken. You're not. You're just some guy who is misguided. But I am not angry in the least and I hope you aren't either. We're just having a little fun with the peasants, right?
This is an amazing piece of writing, well put and on point. Let the fanatics rant, they are defined by their delusions and their atrocities in the name of an imagined deity.
Flip side of the coin
Anybody that is invigorated by this must be walking on the Darkside of the moon
Hoo......when will you be coming back?
Trooper..I love a sincere compliment. Thank you. Oh if only they'd just "rant!" Their history is rife with death and destruction and it continues today. The only cure is universal education, but that will never happen in our lifetime.
My goodness James, such emotion! But then arent ALL "primitives" who continue to imagine the existance of mythical gods, basing that emotion on naught but "guess and hope?" Logic, reason and proofs would only exist as "blasphemy!" Your "ranting," I use a word posted in a former "Hub" to me by "Trooper," reminds me of the childish bullyness of a very insecure kid in grade school who always challenged other kids to compete to prove his lacking masculinity. Pls sir, if offering trite, kindergarden level responses is all you have to offer, let it go and find another playground where 'primitive fundamentalists" play...I am concerned that you find "joy" in living. Thanks for your invitation, but NO thanks...:-)
Someone please direct James and hoo to a good psychiatrist who can provide prescriptions for some very strong anti-psychotics. The only other option is straight jackets.
God has given us a Spirit of love, of power and of a sound mind. You might want to take your own advice...God is our Counselor; you might try Him (our recommendation), but then again, if you don't like sound advice, Charles Manson might have a recommendation for you...just standing up for my brothers in the Lord. AMEN.
ty Carrie...I might try that if you'd just define this "god" thing for me. I've studied all monotheistic writings and, as i mentioned before, there is no definition of "it" that factually defines it. If ya can produce what I missed, pls provide it..ok? ty ..:-)
He's the reason we're all here...
The response of the extremist must always be couched in extremes. There can never be a middle ground. You're either with god or charlie manson. Just like dubya.
I can respect your right to your belief but you can obviously not extend the same "christian" courtesy to me.
I would say without compunction that the religious fundamentalist, hiding behind lofty phrases and religious talking points, bears much greater similarity to Mr. Manson than someone who is simply trying to understand the real world and encourage people to get beyond their ideologies.
Believe what you like and allow others the same freedom.
You even seem to have the audacity to imply that anyone who does not embrace your truth is incapable of love. That is simply too absurd to be genuine.
One wonders why anyone who professes such devotion to a divine god would choose as a handle the name of a fictitious character whose morality and actions would be considered a sin in the eyes of that god.
Perhaps you just enjoy being annoying. AMEN.
That hardly qualifies as a definition.
Well, WOW! Thumbs up to you, qwark :-)
elena...thanks! and ditto! :-)
I am a sinner saved by grace. Most of the false doctrines out there that deny the purpose of Christ use "religious" names ~ have you ever noticed? And ColdWarBaby, I was answering Qwark, who seems to have better manners than "thee". God is love and actually, everyone here should be speaking in such a manner. When you attack my family, I in turn stand up to you and won't cower. If you have a more respectful dimeanor, so shall I ~~ to call my brothers psychiatrically challenged is mean-spirited. Let's try to be more respectful going forward, shall we?
Carrie...ty for that short opinion...:-) but I asked for a definition. An opinion is most definitely not a definition. :-)
Though I don't fully contribute to your line of thinking Qwark, you write so convincingly and wonderfully, you are a pleasure to read. I do agree with a lot of what you say - and maybe my ego does not permit me to see a dust-to-dust scenario - but you make a point and you make it well! Thumbs up for a superb hub!
shalini...I just put my thoughts out there for consideration. My intent is not to "convert," it is just to offer "food for thought." thank you so much for your kind words! You are appreciated...:-)
Carrie. I suppose you find the comments of your "brother" James above to be respectful and mannerly. I attacked no one. I simply responded to incredibly fanatical ranting that I find not only insulting but pretty scary. As for you, It's not what you believe that infuriates me, it's your smug insistence that I and everyone else in the world must believe likewise or else. As to whether you've been "saved", I suppose it's easy to make the claim when you get to define what it means. Now, as you must, please have the last word since I will waste no more responding to such puerile gibberish.
Ok come read the hubs of hipriestess she writes of Horus, Sophia and
the limit of death.
Thanks for the invite Grace...I read your "Hub." What would have given you the idea I might be interested in the subject of it? Well written but I'm really not inspired by writings about mythical supernatural entities. I assume you read my "Hub" "Concerning Death?" I appreciate your interest and comments.
Gees who dropped you on your head dude, are you walking in a trance and barking like an " ANIMAL", Snap out of it, but then the other animals wont have anything to follow huh.
HI reaper....lol..well ya made a comment that puzzles me. Just what is it that has caused you to respond like you have? I must have struck a sensitive spot in your conception of sumthin'?...care to let me in on the "problem?" If ya don't, I have to think that maybe you are just illiterate and emotional...ok? thanks for reading my "stuff."
Qwark, You have omitted one thing; tolerance. You can bandy yourself to be a great intellectual thinker, and you may be one, but don't lose sight of your humanity. I don't believe in God, I know there is a God. As I tried to explain to you before, there are no words to convey what God is except to say God Is. I can tell you of my experiences in out of body travel, of different states of consciousness, etc. but it won't mean a thing to you until you experience it. The first step is love. I am not trying to convert you in any way, shape, or form into believing anything. Believe what you choose, but please allow others to do the same.
Hi Muley:
I have no control over the thought/beliefs of others. It is not within my power to allow anyone to do anything..ok?
Now, why do you misuse english? You again use a word in a way that cannot help your "cause." The word is "know." To "know" is to "Perceive directly or have direct cognition of." You have experienced neither of these definitions in your life experiences regarding this thing you cannot define: "god." Out of body travel?...Different states of consciousness?. I have to be blunt. Muley...opinion and guess related to the metaphysical are not reasons to use the word "know." Get real! You have quite an imagination.
Qwartk chuckles. :-)
Qwark, As I said, there is no way my OBE's, and experiences can help you to understand. For you to understand you need to experience the light and sound for yourself. I have written a hub called "Learning How to Consciously Leave Your Body". It is not hokus pokus, or voo doo, or an over active imagination. It does not matter to me what you believe, or think; but lets not get carried away with name calling, and insults.
Hi Muley:
My intent is never to insult, demean or name call.
My responses are honest and blunt.
You misuse english and seem to be very sensitive to criticism and correction.
One cannot be "insulted." To be insulted is a decision absolutely controlled by you.
Your OBE"s are imagined. There is no way you can prove them to be otherwise. Until they can, I can only consider them in terms of the metaphysical which cannot relate to reality.
What you claim to have experienced is but a facet of human existence that is proclaimed but has no factual being.
I have no problem with you believing that what you think has happened, has...as long as that which is imagined does no harm.
I am only concerned when "Hubbers" like you misuse the words: truth, know, factual..etc in describing your dream life.
I am "sensitive" to my native language being bastardized.
Lighten up and have fun writing about your "dreams."
I am your friendly, skeptical responder,
Qwark
Ok, good enough for me. We just have to agree to disagree about OBE's. By the way you are a good writer, and I like to read your thoughts whether I agree with them or not. Peace Mike
Hi Muley: :-) TY. WE agree to disagree....sounds fair to me...keep writing my friend!
Qwark
What they do not experience, they will discredit...
Spirituality is a personal thing. We all have our Beliefs based very much on what we have experienced. Faith is what really brings the Changes in what we See. Faith is a blind concept. We can have Faith in things we cannot see, because we See them on a different, invisible level.
The human soul does exist after death. It leaves this physical body behind. There is a similar body made of "ecoplasma" if you will, that continues on. We do not lose our form or our identity. The only differences among us are where we are going after we leave this physical life.
I appreciate your beliefs and thank you for welcoming the expression of the beliefs of others.
TY Sarmack:
You offer only "opinion" with no foundation in "fact." I can't accept your comment as being credible, but thanks for reading my "hub" and responding.
Qwark
I only want to say that "in your words" we do become extinct and there is the slightest minute possibility That there is a heaven or hell, I would 100% want to be sure. I would "chance" every possibility i could find even if it meant taking a day of having faith. One day or one week out of a lifetime of possibilities.
HI TimeHealsAll:
Thanks for responding..:-)
Possibility will always exist.
In English there are 2 definitions of "faith."
Faith based upon empirical proof i.e. "the sun will always rise in the east and set in the west."
Religious "faith" which is based soley upon "hope."
I will guide my life with "empirical" proofs. I will never guide my life with only "hope."
In reality. the possiblity of being "sure" of there being a heaven or a hell does not exist. They can only exist in the imagination of the hopeful.
We exist as the result of the processes of "natural selection" and time.
We exist as another form of animal life which may or may not survive to become a successful species. Adaptation is the operative action necessary to realize that outcome.
At this moment in our "evolution," monotheism has so fragmented humanity that I cannot visualize man coming together, in concert, to function as a singular unit with the goal of survival in mind. On the contrary, the future of mankind seems bleak. His inability to conjoin seems to be overpowering.
If he cannot gain control of his uniqueness as a species i.e. consciousness, that uniqueness will be his undoing. He will join the countless trillions of past unsuccessful life forms and become extinct. This imagined god thing will disappear with him.
Again, thanks for your sincere response.
Qwark
Hi Qwark, Could you answer me one question? If you "could" make a wish for whats ahead of you, what would it be? I know your answers are with sincerity. :)
Hi TimeHealsAll:
Thanks for asking. I appreciate your reply.
At my age, 60, I am a very selfish man who is dedicating the remainder of his life to living a healthy and joyful life.
My wish would be that I live long enuf to see my son and grandchildren gain the pleasure in life that I have been fortunate to enjoy. They are the only true loves I've experienced.
May I ask why you asked what wish I'd make?
Thank you
Qwark
Yes you may. I can see that you love your son and your grandchildren in what you have written, and I can also see hope that they are as fortunate as you. I know you hold them dear to your heart. I asked what wish you'd make because I wanted to see if you were happy with your life. It seems you are. Thank you qwark for answering my question :)
Hi TimeHealsAll:
TY.
Yes, I've had a wonderful life and it continues.
I hope life has been good to you too...:-)
Qwark
Hi quark, I am going to add more to my hub " Proof of God's existance". I hope you will read it again. I will let you know when i am finished. Thank you
Hi TimeHealsAll:
I respectfully respond.
Remember this. Before anything can be "proved," that which is to be "proved" must be FACTUALLY "defined."
There is no FACTUAL definition of this "god" thing in ANY monotheistic scripture. This "FACT" would mean that anything you "add" to your "hub," can only be based on opinion or conjecture, ergo, cannot be considered to be "proofs." We who know and accept this would be foolish to continue to read that which can only provide information that provides nothing but "hope."
In english, "proof" is defined as evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a TRUTH or FACT."
Until this god thing can be FACTUALLY defined, any further attempt by you to provide "Proof of god's Existence," can only result in failure.
I thank you tho for the offer to "follow up" by reading additions to your "hub."
Qwark
Hi Qwark, I added to my hub. I am not a great writer but i am offering what i can as proof. I sincerily hope you re-read it and come upon something/anything you can consider as fact. I appreciate your responce. Thank you Qwark
Hi TimeHealsAll:
Out of respect I will read your "hub."
It would be a miracle if I would find any parcel of it to contain "fact."
I will respond. TY
Qwark
Hi Qwark, I ran across a hub on creation and evolutionism. There is a video you may want to see. If you go to my profile, to the right you will see a list of my posted comments. You will find it there. I'm not giving up on you. That may sound condesending to you but it's not meant to be.
Hi TimeHealsAll:
Regardless, I pay no attention to "condescension."
Microevolution has been proved beyond doubt. Macro? It will be eventually.
To one who has spent most of life studying subjects like geology, cosmology, physics, chemistry, archeology etc., etc., creationism can be compared to "truth" as fiction can be compared to fact.
I am online with "dialup." It takes about an hour to download the shortest movies...so thanks, but no thanks.
You are a caring lady, but if 2 1/2 years of christian seminary couldn't "save me," what are your chances?...:-)
Qwark
Does anybody remember their birth? Does anybody really experience death? What is it that dies?....I may witness birth and death but do they really happen?....I'm told they do. Science says so. But I wonder..??...I doubt it!!
Hi Ashmi;
Why would you doubt it?
I've written this "hub" "Concerning Death," why don't you write one concerned about your doubt?
I'd read it.
Thanks for reading and responding...:-)
you have a right to your opinion, but being a Christian just makes life much more worthwhile.
Satan can quote the Word of God and did so to Jesus in the desert. Carrie and James ugh...James, James, James, you embarrass yourselves and me as a believer in God.
Carrie you have read enough and been exposed to the Bible and it's teaching, obviously, but you try to stuff the throat of an unbeliever all the while proclaiming he will not understand without the leadership of the Holy Spirit. You try to force feed him what is foolishness to him and then respond with insult when he gags! You write,
"You two sound like aliens as well...and I wouldn't be so surpised if you were also not part of this world."
You know who God is. If He stood before you, you would immediately confess as Legion did. There would no way to hide as you do now behind such a front. AMEN."
referencing Legions of demons that were driven out by Jesus. Because they do not believe they are demons? Then, for the cherry on the top you respond to ColdWarBaby with,
"God is our Counselor; you might try Him (our recommendation), but then again, if you don't like sound advice, Charles Manson might have a recommendation for you...just standing up for my brothers in the Lord. AMEN."
Jesus got angry in the temple and over turned the tables of those who turned his Father's house from what it was supposed to be to a place of greed and his indignation was Righteous but you take offense because they don't believe YOU. Search your heart.
James, Lord have mercy on your soul, seriously... If you continue along this path I am convinced Jesus will one day say to you, "Depart from me, I never knew you."
I am a believer and it is my sincere desire to offer the Gospel to as many as I possibly can as we are taught is our appointed duty. Key word here - offer - not beat over the head with, insult, try to match wits with, engage in arguments with, and before you, James, try to convince me that was just a debate, it was not. Your pride left no room for Jesus what-so-ever.
Jesus taught by example not by force or by might.
Sorry Pooh:
There is not one person alive today that knows what this jesus person said...NOT ONE!
You read, accept and follow just as all "fundies" of all monotheistic beliefs do.
I have not yet, in my 60+ years of experience, met one (1) fundie of any monotheistic belief who is a "thinker."
They are ALL manacled by religious bigotry and unable to take the steps necessary to join the ranks of pragmatic realists.
I was one of the fortunate who's desire for truth was so powerful that I, like the fabled Samson, was able to tear down the tabernacles of abject ignorance and watch as they crumbled around me and left me exposed me to the brilliance of truth and reality!
I have been where you are Pooh, I've worn your mocassins and have grown out of them.
My thinking is light years beyond the capabilities of those who still wallow in the muck and mire of primitive, deadly, monotheistic thought and action.
There is no possibity of a return to that level primitive learned behavior for me.
Thanks again for reading my "hub" and commenting :-)
Qwark
You're welcome qwark. I don't think I could join the ranks of pragmatic realists even if I didn't believe in God. Your head is filled with facts and my heart with emotion. At least you know what you believe and don't. I know what I believe and it is by Faith ... which you just said. But it is lovely that we can agree to disagree and I still enjoy reading what you have to say.
Hi Pooh:
Oh I'm an emotional man. No doubt about that.
But I'm a discerning emotional man.
There are 2 connotations of the concept "faith."
One is based upon empirical proof i.e. The sun will rise from the east. The second is religious faith which has its foundation on shaky ground i.e. "hope."
My heart is filled with fact AND emotion!
We agree,as friends, to disagree.
Thanks for responding! :-)
Qwark
Ab-soul-tively qwark... no, I wouldn't want you to try to 'convert" me and I do you the same favor. We can certainly co-exist with no animosity at all. I like reading what you have to say.
TY Pooh! :-)
You have some very valid points qwark.
I think the clinging to the "I" when our body passes and our energy gets dispersed to where ever, is a frightening thought for some. It would mean "I" no longer exist. In a sense thats true, in another sense it is false because energy is indestructible.
It is rare we retain the "I" that we know for this reason.. we are dispersed...
Yet we are all part of the whole energetically. So instead of "I" there is "we" in a sense.
The ego is a funny thing when it is clingy.
Haven't read all the comments and will revisit when time permits.
Enjoyed your hub! Thanks
Hi Penny:
Yep, you are correct.
We are ALL part and parcel of the universe from which we were created and
will return to.
"...no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
Desiderata
Qwark :-)
So the question of mortality?
I regard myself as immortal for as long as I am capable of imagining the future...
another way of saying that is, that (one aspect of) life is retrospective experience..."this second exist only in contrast with the second before it"...I am, in fact, remembering my future.
I am still working on finding the words to express this view (of Death) that does not make people smile and say, 'keep up the good work, theraputic writing 101 is down the hall on the left".
But it is true.
And besides, Death is a no-lose proposition.
If there is no god or afterlife then you will not know it.
If there is a god and an afterlife, then fine, we will all stand around the Pearly Gates and have a good-natured laugh* at your insisting during life that you knew the answer for sure...
* now if there is an afterlife, and the powers that be are upset with me, then I probably would enjoy myself in whatever the alternative location is, after all "higher reasoning" is understood by most people as being a gift, not a curse.
Hi Clark:
"Pascals Wager?"
For that to make any sense to me, I must know what this "god" thing is that ya mention.
If all ya can offer is opinion, I can't take any of it seriously. :-)
What is this "higher reasoning" you mention?
There are those of our species who are aptitudinally gifted with intellectual abilities far greater than what I possess. Even so, They are but "babes-in-the-crib" in ref to understanding the mysteries inherent in this endless, eternal cosmos.
We are presently "groping" and learning.
The field of metaphysics is far beyond our yet primitive intellecual abilities to comprehend.
All we really know is that we don't know.
Thanks for reading and commenting Clark :-)
Qwark
Carrie Bradshaw Level 2 Commenter 2 years ago
Hi. It's Carrie. I received your question and answered it via email, but I don't see it in my "sent messages". Do you receive emails? If so, check for my email and I hope I can help you on your quest for spirituality, oneness with your Creator.